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Old 02-10-2019, 02:38 PM   #1
jdg
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Default Which M85 PAP?

With or without the AR-15 magazine adapter? Is one better then the other? I Have plenty of AR mags, so I'm leaning that direction.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:39 PM   #2
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The np is probably more practical for most folks, but a front serialized PV is more valuable from a collector standpoint for ease of converting to a “correct” sbr. Whichever version you’re looking at, consider the location of the serial if you’re looking to sbr or add an extension to make a rifle. Front marked are good for underfolder stocks, and rear are good for 4.5 or 5.5 sidefokder mechanisms. If you wanna use one of the modular stocks that attaches to the rear the serial location isn’t as important.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by es View Post
The np is probably more practical for most folks, but a front serialized PV is more valuable from a collector standpoint for ease of converting to a “correct” sbr. Whichever version you’re looking at, consider the location of the serial if you’re looking to sbr or add an extension to make a rifle. Front marked are good for underfolder stocks, and rear are good for 4.5 or 5.5 sidefokder mechanisms. If you wanna use one of the modular stocks that attaches to the rear the serial location isn’t as important.
Thanks for your insight!
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #4
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The AK magazine is more reliable than the AR15 magazine.

It also gives you a proper receiver and trunnion, instead of ones cut up for the AR15 magazine.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
The AK magazine is more reliable than the AR15 magazine.

It also gives you a proper receiver and trunnion, instead of ones cut up for the AR15 magazine.
As far as your post is concerned, I agree completely, but it is interesting to note that the m85 and m90 NP actually have less material machined away. When I reworked my m90np to take the serbian mags I had to open up the rear 2/3rds of the magazine well, extend it rearward slightly, and take a little off the magazine stabilizers. I swapped the trigger guard out for a standard yugo trigger guard, but reused the original selector stop plate (machined it back a little too when I did the receiver, after it was riveted back in place). I swapped the front trunnion for a modified m70 trunnion instead of welding up the left ear (to match the setback of the rsb and fit flush to the top cover) because the shelf the front lug of the magazine interfaces with was not machined on the m90np trunnion. There is a lot of conflicting speculation regarding the mag adapter rifles because not many people have actually done this but were interested in possibly converting the rifles; a lot of people assumed the magazine well and trunnion had to be milled out larger than normal for the adapter, but this is not the case.

I know of another that turbothis did for a member here, but I think he just opted to machine the front trunnion (though it wasn't really clear, some of the rifles may have come with a trunnion that was machined for the shelf) when he did the magazine well. The owner of the rifle stated that turbo said he just swapped the trigger guard and opened up the magazine well, but it was hard to tell what exactly was done from the pictures.


Last edited by es; 02-10-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:52 AM   #6
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I've had both and like both. The AR magazine version is cool because the mags are everywhere and fit Barbie guns but the plastic adapter could be a little more confidence inspiring. Either one seems to be a proven choice. I figure if the plastic mag adapter breaks I could probably buy an aluminum and graft it on or maybe just make one from an 80% ar lower.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:28 PM   #7
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M85NP. Makes it just too easy, plus you can use AR drum mags, don't know if there's a .223 M85 pv drum mag or not, perhaps somebody will chime in on that, I have magpul D-60's for mine.

The plastic magwell is very robust, it's not cheap shit plastic, it's like glock or magpul plastic, thick and tough. But as pointed out above, it's super easy to use an AR 80% lower if you prefer metal for this job, I have a spare i'm keeping just in case I ever want to do that, 35 bucks for the lower so a very affordable mod.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:21 PM   #8
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I guess the AK mag version is off the table, a guy had both to trade, but now just the NP is for trade. So that's that... Thanks for all the input guys
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:03 PM   #9
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I dithered and missed out on an M85 NP last week. Kind of regretting it now.

If you want this one don't delay, they seem to go fast.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:56 AM   #10
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With the PV the concern I had initially was mag availability since the one I was looking at only came with one polymer mag. Prior to buying mine I was able to score a ton of brand new steel Yugo mags at a great price so with that concern alleviated I grabbed it. I wanted the NP version initially but glad I got the PV. Can't go wrong either way really...
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porcupine View Post
I dithered and missed out on an M85 NP last week. Kind of regretting it now.

If you want this one don't delay, they seem to go fast.
And getting way more expensive since they stopped making them.

Zastava USA allegedly will have a new one, but looks to me like they dumped every single cool feature about the M85NP and just made basically an M92 in .223, skinny 0.9mm receiver, no RPK trunnion, and probably not a chrome-lined barrel anymore, maybe not even CHF.

And all for a round with a lot more pressure than x39, they already had issues with bad heat treat and egging axis pin holes with their skinny receivers in x39, I imagine it will be worse with the higher pressure round.

So find a real M85 while you still can, they did those right from the get-go.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post

And all for a round with a lot more pressure than x39, they already had issues with bad heat treat and egging axis pin holes with their skinny receivers in x39, I imagine it will be worse with the higher pressure round.
7.62x39 is harder on a weapon in every way except barrel eroision. The pressure is only part of the equation, its the measurement of force per area, larger area = more total force. With the larger case of the 7.62 there is more hoop stress, and significantly more rearward thrust, anything that can handle 7.62x39 will handle 5.56x45 with a much larger safety margin.
5.56 is only harder on the rifling, due to its higher velocities.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:56 PM   #13
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obiwanbonjovi,
That is interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.


So.....OP, did you get your hands on that NP model?

I like these M85s a lot. They're built very nicely. The polymer magwell is strong and should last for a long time.


Last edited by Kit Carson; 02-12-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:55 AM   #14
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Not yet, he's been trying to sell for quite some time. Started at $800, but now is down to $675. I seen some pics of these online researching the magwell, and they appear to have a CL barrel?
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:01 AM   #15
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Yes, chrome lined
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:45 PM   #16
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Default M85NP barrel

CL-CHF 1:7 5.56 barrel

$675 is not bad.
Buy it, whatcha waiting for?
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:34 PM   #17
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Yup, you should probably just buy it at that price.
As already mentioned, doubtful they'll come in again with the RPK trunnion, CL CHF barrel, etc.
If they're below $600, they get snatched up instantly on the secondary market.....$675 total isn't bad.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:20 PM   #18
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Well thanks and all Chris, but this is like the third time you've said the exact same thing to me, trust me I got it the first time, okay? And it's stuff I already know, I spent quite a bit of time working and apprenticing for one of the best gunsmiths/machinists in the entire country.

And i'm not arguing with you in the least, and have not done so any of the previous times either. We get it, you're a smart knowledgeable guy about guns, but it gets to be a little pedantic if you keep homing in on only part of the point of what I was saying and correcting me, when in fact I agree with you, so let me try one more time:

What i'm saying is, the M85NP is overkill, and I like overkill, and i'm saying the M92 should be built the same way obviously because of the larger round and should have been that way from the get-go. Dropping these features from the M85 is a step back, when they should leave it be and instead build the M92 to the same specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obiwanbonjovi View Post
7.62x39 is harder on a weapon in every way except barrel eroision. The pressure is only part of the equation, its the measurement of force per area, larger area = more total force. With the larger case of the 7.62 there is more hoop stress, and significantly more rearward thrust, anything that can handle 7.62x39 will handle 5.56x45 with a much larger safety margin.
5.56 is only harder on the rifling, due to its higher velocities.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-ula View Post
CL-CHF 1:7 5.56 barrel

$675 is not bad.
Buy it, whatcha waiting for?
To sell a rifle, then I'll touch base with him.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:56 PM   #20
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Sorry Dragynn, Im not trying to call you out, just attempting to dispel a persistent internet myth, I only homed in on a part of what you were saying because it was only that part that I felt to be misinformation, the rest seemed like good advice.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:02 AM   #21
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For $675 I would jump on it in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:54 PM   #22
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Guy won't answer his text
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:43 PM   #23
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The M85NP's got pretty scarce except in resale market. The Zastava steel mags came in waves. Were up to $50 each for a time until Century dumped a bunch when the PV model was imported. Still kinda pricey vs the AR mags.
Probably 15 choices in AR mags in poly, aluminum and steel in various cartridge capacity drums etc. @ $9 - $20.., drums are more of course.

Both NP & PV have proven to be reliable AFAIK. and What I have used/worked with.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:57 PM   #24
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Mini-RPK really, lol, love 'em, need to take a new pic with one of my D-60's in the magwell, looks pretty wicked.

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Old 02-15-2019, 11:44 PM   #25
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Honestly bang for the buck even now the yugo pattern paps are still pretty tempting. Not like when I first got an m92 a few years back for $399 but they aren't bad. I traded into an m85 that I would have a hard time getting rid of. Part of me wants an m92 just because and I don't even own a 7.62x39 rifle or pistol anymore. The paps are just neat little choppers.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:36 AM   #26
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Honestly bang for the buck even now the yugo pattern paps are still pretty tempting. Not like when I first got an m92 a few years back for $399 but they aren't bad. I traded into an m85 that I would have a hard time getting rid of. Part of me wants an m92 just because and I don't even own a 7.62x39 rifle or pistol anymore. The paps are just neat little choppers.
PV or NP? Wanna trade for an m92 underfolder
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:02 AM   #27
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Mini-RPK really, lol, love 'em, need to take a new pic with one of my D-60's in the magwell, looks pretty wicked.

That really looks good brother!!
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:20 AM   #28
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PV or NP? Wanna trade for an m92 underfolder
Tempting but I'll pass. I really don't think I could get rid of my little 223 AK that can take AR mags. It's just too damn handy. I really need to try and tune it for my suppressor though. That's one thing I've yet to do that would take it from fun to super fun.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:34 AM   #29
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Tempting but I'll pass. I really don't think I could get rid of my little 223 AK that can take AR mags. It's just too damn handy. I really need to try and tune it for my suppressor though. That's one thing I've yet to do that would take it from fun to super fun.
Ha, I was mostly kidding but I’d like to find another pv, the one I had was rear marked and I couldn’t put the underfolder on it, so I sold it and never got around to picking up another. I think that’s for sure gonna be my next purchase
ETA: well this was the prompting I needed to scoop a used pv with the forward marked serial, probably gonna be about $575ish after shipping, already got a nice uf setup to put on it

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Old 02-16-2019, 04:45 PM   #30
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Got it! New unfired for 650!
Had to get a few coats of tung oil on the handguards, but here it is. Have a SBA3 on the way, but StormWerkz is out of the UC adapters for now.

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Old 02-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #31
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Zastava USA Shows the Zpap M85 with a bulged trunnion, CHF barrel, no mag adapter. Wonder how long before that one hits the market? Someone said they will be built on a .9mm receiver?
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:32 PM   #32
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Nice score man, looks great!

Cool thing is when you pick it up for the first time, it's so small it looks light, until you pick it up and feel the weight and know you bought a beast!
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:13 PM   #33
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Default in stock?

I just checked:
but StormWerkz is out of the UC adapters for now.

And I can add both types to the cart.?

You want the angled one.

cheers
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:31 PM   #34
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I just checked:
but StormWerkz is out of the UC adapters for now.

And I can add both types to the cart.?

You want the angled one.

cheers
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Right on, I click on my cart each day, till that magic day
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:23 PM   #35
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They do feel solid. My buddy who isn't an AK guy stated that much after shooting mine. I mean this guy thinks AKs are junk rifles but he was impressed with the handling and my shooting if the m85 at 100-125 yrds. I do my part and I can't miss out to 200yrds with my peep sight. Those steel torso targets are dead standing.
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