Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > AK-74s

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-13-2017, 02:29 PM   #1
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default AK-74/100 upgrade kit and AK-12 parts?

I'm trying to find out what the AK-74/100 rifle family upgrades are and how they're supposed to work.

I know that they have a new handgaurd with rails, a reinforced dust cover that's hinged to a new rear sight base (with the hinge mounts attached), and the current version seems to have a throw lever that holds the dust cover onto the rifle.

Also, it seems that there's a choice between the normal muzzle brake (standard) and bell mouth flash hider/expansion chamber (carbine), and a Arsenal type bird cage flash hider.

I'm wondering what other upgrades there are aside from the new buttstock that's retractable and folding?

Also does anyone know about the unique rear sight base/dust cover on the AK-12?

I'm also wondering if the AK-12's rear sight can fit on the AK-74 upgrade kit rifles?
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 09:39 PM   #2
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Video of the rifles in question:

BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 03:51 AM   #3
Wulfe74
Member
 
Wulfe74's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191248
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Eugene, Oregon.
Posts: 53
Default

About the closest thing, is the ak with zenitco gear and camo on the for sales thread now or buy all the extra goodies and put them on. Theres a few companies that make railed dust covers (TWS) I think and add some Zenitco bling.
Real ak-12 stuff might be awhile and as far as I can tell by just pics, i imagine the ak12 dust cover is hard mounted in a different location.
Ill wait for a better confirm from another member on that.

Last edited by Wulfe74; 02-14-2017 at 04:17 AM.
Wulfe74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 03:04 PM   #4
chris22lr
Member
 
AKaholic #: 191222
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland - I like AKs and this is AK forum
Posts: 28
Default

This is official KC graphic presenting "universal upgrade kit" for AK rifles (aka UUK). UUK consists of new telescopic stock, railed top cover, ergonomic pistol grip (with internal storage), magazine, handguards and muzzle device.

Stocks come in two variants, one for AKS-74/AK-74M side-foliding trunnion, and second for fixed stock trunnion (folding ability is built into the stock adapter). Old, upgraded service rifles are equipped with top cover which seems to be attached to the take down button in rear, while factory new rifles are seen with "SVD-style" top covers, secured by additional lever. The muzzle device also comes in two styles - military rifles were seen with multi-purpose, modular design (some speculate that it may have some silencing abilities), while KC display rifles show flash hider reminescent of SVD one.

Larry Vickers photos show AK-74 modified with folding stock adapter and "army" top cover and muzzle device (top cover is attached instead of rear sight leaf, even though KC graphic seems to indicate a modified rear sight block with hole drilled for hinge pin - I'm not sure which one is true since LV rifle is clearly a prototype). The video you've posted (there's no RPK-16 in there funnily enough) shows KC display rifle with "SVD-style" top cover (notice that rear sight block is completely different, more like the one in Vityaz or AKS-74U) and seemingly regular AK-74 flash hider. Photos from your other thread show new "SVD-style" flash hider.

Once again - instead of several threads discussing single aspects of UUK, we could have one.
chris22lr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 04:31 PM   #5
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

The first thread was mostly about something I had never encountered before. I knew of the AK-100 carbines, but I didn't associate the photos with a modernized AK-104.

I also really wanted to discuss the AK-12, and the particulars known of it. It seems to be different enough from the upgraded AK-74M/AK-100 rifles to warrant discussion. However, it seems that things being used on it (and the AK-400 that inspired it) were in the end filtered down to the upgrade kits.

Also, I wonder about the performance benefits of the AK-12/RPK-16 over the standard AK-74M and RPK-74. And where the updated rifles fit in.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 06:03 PM   #6
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Also, I don't think that any one combination of parts has been standardized yet. The AK-12 influenced parts are probably where KC wants to go, but they also have converted hundreds if not possibly thousands of AK-74s with the original kit. Also, in the video, the AK-74 still has the leaf rear sight (like the modified AK-104 in the other thread), and uses a standard AK-74/100 muzzle brake.

I'm also wondering if the AK-12 would be optioned with a flash hider rather than the muzzle brake that it's been pictured with in all photos and videos I've seen.

I'm guessing that this is like the whole Ratnik kit, which is constantly evolving and not one optimal solution has been arrived at yet.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 02:20 PM   #7
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Sorry to bump this thread (though I hoped for more discussion here), but it seems that some of the stuff of the AK upgrade kit was done on the WZ/96D Beryl, which had a reinforced/hinged top cover with pic rail, a railed fore-end, and other similarities to the AK upgrade kit/AK-12:

BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 12:08 AM   #8
Wulfe74
Member
 
Wulfe74's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191248
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Eugene, Oregon.
Posts: 53
Default

Too bad its not a 7.62x39 like the author put on the vid tag.
Wulfe74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 09:42 AM   #9
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

I like the idea of the hinged top cover, though it's not a particularly easy part to lose because of how big it is. It'll also allow (as well as extra reinforcement) to mount optical sights or even iron sights on the dust cover and retain zero easier.

Still interested in how the rear sight base/dust cover interface and gas tube interface on the AK-12 works.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 02:02 PM   #10
Wulfe74
Member
 
Wulfe74's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191248
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Eugene, Oregon.
Posts: 53
Default

I think its similar to aksu dust cover attach.
watch this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1rzG1CPLQ
Wulfe74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 06:54 PM   #11
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

I wonder if the Beryl detachable rail is better or the AK UGK railed dust cover is better. Especially with how it's hinged on the AK-74/AK-100 rifles and both those and the AK-12 use a SVD or AN-94 throw lever to hold the cover down on the rifles.

Never the less, what the Russian are doing is similar to what's been done on the commercial market and with some others (like an export version of the Beryl that FB Radom offers) for a few years now. But I wonder if we're doing it better, or the Russians?
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 11:35 PM   #12
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

I wonder what members here prefer, the AK-12/AK-15, or the AK-74M/AK-103 upgraded rifles?

Also, I have a question about the front sling swivel on the AK-12. I'm wondering how much effect it could have on accuracy (if any) by attaching a sling there, and trying to use the old "sling up" firing method as opposed to having it hooked to the handguard or something like that. Not that slinging up is a common AK shooing practice.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 08:47 AM   #13
chris22lr
Member
 
AKaholic #: 191222
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland - I like AKs and this is AK forum
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
I also really wanted to discuss the AK-12, and the particulars known of it. It seems to be different enough from the upgraded AK-74M/AK-100 rifles to warrant discussion. However, it seems that things being used on it (and the AK-400 that inspired it) were in the end filtered down to the upgrade kits.
In my opinion (and it's just a speculation) it all went the other way. Izhmash/KC was developing original AK-12 and upgrade kit simultaneously. When original AK-12 failed during army tests, a new one was prepared from AK-400 prototype (the short stroke, Dragunov inspired AK-74M) and parts from the upgrade kit. New AK-12 is more conservative than original one (receiver is almost unmodified when compared to AK-74M/AK-100 series), so it doesn't have the ergonomic upgrades (like ambidextrous safety lever and ejector window), but still have the upgraded gas system (which probably allowed KC to add a quick change barrel to RPK-16).

As you've said in the other post: looks like the whole idea is still evolving. That's actually a very Russian way of doing things - they are known to make various wild, one-off prototypes since they don't worry about the whole capitalist profitability thing.

As for the top-rail thing, in my opinion (and again it's just a speculation ) the one with SVD-type lever in the back seems like the most secure, mainly because in front it uses an AKS-74U type hinge. Larry Vicker's photos show top cover that is probably what is used on Russian armed forces upgraded guns, with stock being attached instead of rear sight leaf and in rear secured by a reinforced take down button. Much like TWS Dog-leg rail/cover, and probably prototype Beryl wz.96D top cover (which is still way too high with current stock).
chris22lr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 06:46 PM   #14
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Thanks for the reply, I've been waiting for things to pick up in this thread.

But from what I can tell, the AK-12 and RPK-16 still use a normal AK long stroke gas piston. Modern Firearms, which is run by someone who works for Kalashnikov Concern (albeit in their media department) makes mention that the standard AK operating system hasn't changed. I believe that when LAV said that the AK-400 had a short stroke piston, he either mis-intrpreted what he was told, or he referred to the gas plug (granted, the AK-400/AK-103-4 was a prototype rifle, so if it had a short stroke piston, it could've been dropped when it was "productionized").

In an Army Recognition video (in my AK-12 video thread if you want to watch it), a Kalashnikov Concern expert was talking about the rifle, and that it needs that removable gas plug because of something that LAV also referred to, that being the free floated handguards.

Because of the handguard being fully free floated away from the barrel, you can't remove the gas tube like on a normal AK (use a throw lever and remove the handgaurds) or say a Tantal/Beryl (throw lever on the front retainer, slide forward and remove handguards and pull out the gas tube). This is one reason why I'd like to see some get a video or photos of the new AK-12 or even a Saiga AK-15 self loader field stripped. I also think that the free floated handgaurds and gas block design also allows for an easy quick change barrel on the RPK-16.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 07:12 PM   #15
Lightstrider
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 177964
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 691
Default

Hmm how to mimic the lug/cleaning rod attachment just behind the muzzle device.... dremel down a standard front sight but shape it up to look nice?
Lightstrider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 10:25 PM   #16
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

One thing that I'd like to see on the upgraded AK-74 and 100 rifles is a switch to a Tantal/Beryl front handguard retainer. It seems to hold the handguards solidly to the rifle without them moving around (the Vickers Tacticak AK-74M upgrade video shows the top of the handgaurd moving back an forth a lot during automatic fire). It also seems to make removing the gas tube easier than having to deal with the normal AK throw lever.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 07:11 PM   #17
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

I don't know how much this will help, but could this maybe be the key to how the RPK-16's quick change barrel works?

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...85&oe=5968755E

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e4&oe=5932C869
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #18
chris22lr
Member
 
AKaholic #: 191222
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland - I like AKs and this is AK forum
Posts: 28
Default

I know these photos, but unfortunately they don't show anything about barrel change mechanism.

Graphic of the field-stripped gun is most useful. We can see that apparently gas tube is now non-removable and there's some unidentified "thing" attached to the front of the receiver, which is probably barrel change lever? I guess it's so, because you can't see it on assembled gun.

Gas system looks to be long stroke, but is it? On the graphic of stripped gun, there's some object above the longest barrel. Maybe a flash-hider, but maybe it's some part of gas system? Maybe gas plug, as you've said in previous message? I don't know.

Speaking of your previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
But from what I can tell, the AK-12 and RPK-16 still use a normal AK long stroke gas piston.
That would be very disappointing, IMHO. I mean - if gas system is the same on AK-12/RPK-16, then what makes these guns better than AK-74M with upgrade kit? There's rumour that AK-12/RPK-16 have a (partially) free floated barrel, but honestly, I can't see that happening with current design (while there's probably no contact between barrel and handguards, there still seems to be contact between barrel, gas block/front sight combo to be more specific, and gas tube).
chris22lr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 03:04 PM   #19
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Free floated barrel and the barrel is weighted. Though I don't know how, other than improving balance on the actual rifles, how much that'll help with accuracy over something like a Beryl or the upgraded AKs.

If you check out Frag Out Magazine's article on the Beryl M762 in issue 10, they have a Beryl field stripped, and it just seems to have a heavy barrel, probably in part dictated by accuracy and also due to going from 5.56x45mm NATO to 7.62x39 Russian. There's even a slot machined into the sides of the barrel to allow a standard Beryl handgaurd/gas tube retainer to slide back and forth.

But back to the AK-12/RPK-16, the photos (though clearly not the best) do show a standard AK-74/100 bolt carrier, complete with long stroke piston.

Basically, the current AK-12/RPK-16 seems to be a compromise of the best parts of the AK-100 rifles and the old AK-12. Even then, a lot of the stuff that Kalashnikov are doing is stuff that FB Radom where doing with their Beryls nearly a decade before and some were doing with commercial AKs years prior.

Granted, I think that Kalashnikov are doing better with the stock design (the AKM/AK-74 adaptable stock especially that should fit on a Beryl, as it uses a AKM rear trunnion like the AK-74) and integrating the rails into the dust cover.

But at least on the Beryl, the detachable rail saved a lot of effort and time on redesigning the dust cover and it's retention (Radom already designed a modified tail on the Beryl's recoil spring guide to clamp the dust cover in place when firing a 40mm grenade launcher). And I think that the initially criticized front hangaurd retainer system has worked out for the better, seeing as the upper railed hangaurd in the Vickers Tactical video moved back and forth on the upgraded AK-74, especially in full auto.

Basically, the new AK-12 family is using as many parts as possible from existing AK-100 rifles (like the AK-74M), and doing stuff that like what FB Radom have been doing with their Beryl rifles for over a decade now, and in the case of the gas block and sights, what Valmet did in the 1960s.

I also wish that the photos were better quality, not just for the barrel change, but to see how the gas cylinder and receiver interface. After all, the reason why the removable gas plug exists is mostly because the gas tube reportedly isn't easily removable for field stripping.

Last edited by BarnOwlLover; 03-09-2017 at 03:20 PM.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 05:03 PM   #20
chris22lr
Member
 
AKaholic #: 191222
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland - I like AKs and this is AK forum
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
Basically, the current AK-12/RPK-16 seems to be a compromise of the best parts of the AK-100 rifles and the old AK-12.
Thing is that I don't see what they lifted from old original AK-12. New safety lever? Nope. Ability to switch the ejection side? Nope. Extended iron sight radius? Nope. Handguard is free floated and that's it (and I think that's only a feature of RPK-16, so barrel can be changed).

This doesn't really make me all that warm and fuzzy inside - especially, when I can get most of the stuff (rails all over, new stock and grip) as an upgrade kit for already existing guns in inventory. And probably for a lot less money too (and no matter what Russia Today says - money is a problem in Russia, even in their armed forces).

My speculation is that Russian military will go with the upgrade program, and won't even look at AK-12 (RPK-16 may be adopted, but who knows). That gun (in it's previous incarnation) was apparently really problematic during state trials, and it seemed that Russian Army (as opposed to politicians) is really looking forward to ZiD upgraded AEK. So generals may go with upgrades to please Kalash Concern and politicians (KC seems to be Putin's current pet company), and when the dust settles, adopt ZiD gun.

This would be rational thing to do, since AK-74M with upgrade kit represents the pinnacle of AK evolution. It have all the cool bells and whistles that you may want from AK with reliable optic interface being the most important in military/LE use. More substantial improvements, like the ones seen on original AK-12, are really not worth it - at this point (and for this money) you may as well ditch the AK platform, and go with something more "modular" ("modern"? relative terms) from the get go. Probably inspired by AR-18 - let's be honest, Eugene Stoner was rifle John Moses Browning of second half of XXth century. We, Poland, are doing exactly that - back in early 2000s AK platform was deemed non prospective and work on MSBS started (2006 in Military Academy of Technology).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
If you check out Frag Out Magazine's article on the Beryl M762 in issue 10, they have a Beryl field stripped, and it just seems to have a heavy barrel, probably in part dictated by accuracy and also due to going from 5.56x45mm NATO to 7.62x39 Russian.
Actually the profile of Beryl M762 barrel is very similiar to 5.56 Beryl. Under the handguards Beryl barrel was always a bit thick, but in front of handguards it was rather on the thin side. In case of Beryl M762 the thicker profile is extended a little bit further, but the rest of it is comparable to 5.56 variant (adjusted for bigger caliber).

The (almost legendary in US) accuracy of Beryl barrel is not a question of thickness, but rather manufacturing process and quality of materials. From what I understand FB "Lucznik" uses the same equipment for making their barrels as Steyr and SAN Arms (former Swiss SIG). These are indeed good barrels (FB was contracted by CZUB to make P-07 barrels for their Egyptian contract), but I think that Beryl accuracy among US AK enthusiasts is a little overblown, especially thanks to early review of Archer by Tim from Military Arms Channel. Beryl is a very accurate, and a quality gun, but it's still only an assault rifle. There's really no Polish pierogi magic in it - I guess that if made with similiar attention to overall worksmanship, other 5.56 AKs are going to be very much comparable in accuracy. Heck - load Lapua ammo in generic AK, and it's going to shine (unless it's an American AK - it's gonna blow up as usual)!
chris22lr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 06:15 PM   #21
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Of course, the ZID AEK rifle will probably have the same problem that the similar AK-107 rifle had: too expensive for general issue and a bit too complex for the grunts.

The AK-12 does have a longer sight radius (like a Valmet though similar sight placement), but other than taking advantage of some modern techniques in manufacturing, I can't say beyond being interesting how much better it is than it's forebearers, and it's probably not going to be widely adopted. It's better than the AK-74, but by how much? I don't think there's a conclusive answer aside from being more up to date.

Not to mention that you can get at least 90% of the same updates in the AK-100 upgrade kits and something like the Beryl.

And sadly, in Poland, I don't think that the Beryl is going anywhere soon. When a fairly significant part of the Polish Army's reserve forces are still armed with AK-47s, you're gonna want to replace those rifles first. The Beryl is also relatively cheap, does the job well, and is familiar to any solider who's handled a AK.

Not to mention the the MSBS seems to be encountering the same development hell that the original AK-12 did. Radom has been working on it for over a decade, yet nothing more than a few prototypes have trickled out of the factory. If the MSBS is so much better than the Beryl, why hasn't it entered mass production yet?

The reason IMO is simple: the small arms market is flat for armed forces sales for the most part, and no rifle has yet to show a ton of improvement in combat effectiveness over the old AK-47 or AR-15. And it's cheaper and simpler to upgrade and modernize older designs than come up with new ones.

Also, I wouldn't call Eugene Stoner the John Browning of the second half of the 20th century: The early AR-15s were damn near a disaster, the AR-18 never found a market in it's day (though it's bolt and gas piston system have been widely copied), and the Colt 2000 pistol he designed for CMC was basically junk.

Granted, that's not to say that Browning didn't crank out a piece of crap on occasion, but his body of work is unquestionable as far as stuff that's made it to production.

Besides, AK and AR rifles won't be going anywhere soon, because it's gonna take a big leap in terms of technology and cost to get something much better. Hell, the Russians encountered Vickers-Maxim machines guns and Afghanistan. And the Vickers should've been obsolete many years earlier.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2017, 08:45 PM   #22
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

One of the things that the AK-12 has over a standard AK-74 is sight radius with the rear sight moved back to the rear of the dust cover, and the front sight mounted on the gas block.

But why not, if zeroing isn't a problem, mount the AK-12's leaf sight on the AK-74/100 upgrade rifles dust cover and have an even longer sight radius? You also get an aperture peep sight and windage adjustment, too.

I'm also surprised that the Beryl hasn't switched to a peep sight or find some way to mount a rail on the dust cover, and have a provision to move the rear sight further back. But then again, since I've talked a lot about the Beryl (mostly as an AK-74/100 upgrade rifle/AK-12 rifle competitor as both have AKM/AK-74 origins), I could ask why Radom hasn't fitted the Beryl with a AK-style muzzle brake, or why they don't use (like on the Tantal) a detent button to keep the muzzle brake on the rifle, since that seems to be more "modular" for fitting different muzzle brakes, flash hiders, or suppressors.

Granted, on all these rifles, the iron sights are seen as back ups, since they're mainly intended to mount a red dot or optical sight of some sorts as the main sight.

And another feature that I just realized on the AK-12's gas plug. It seems to be held in place by an offset spring detent button like the AKSU's muzzle device.

Last edited by BarnOwlLover; 03-10-2017 at 10:07 PM.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 06:58 PM   #23
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Seems that the Russian Army will adopt (albeit relatively small numbers of) both the AK-12/15 and A-545/762 rifles.

It also seems that the upgraded AK-74M and AK-103 rifles (fitted with the upgrade kits that Kalashnikov Concern developed alongside the AK-400 rifle) will still be the meat of the rifles for the Russian Army for quite a while.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ssault-rifles/
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 08:51 PM   #24
TangoUniform
за мой Автомат Калашникова
Silver Contributor
 
TangoUniform's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 167175
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 8,546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
Seems that the Russian Army will adopt (albeit relatively small numbers of) both the AK-12/15 and A-545/762 rifles.

It also seems that the upgraded AK-74M and AK-103 rifles (fitted with the upgrade kits that Kalashnikov Concern developed alongside the AK-400 rifle) will still be the meat of the rifles for the Russian Army for quite a while.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ssault-rifles/
Hopefully, those Barky sanctions get removed in the next 2-4 years and we can:

a) get the AK-74M parts kits
b) get A-545/762 and/or AK-12/15 semi-auto rifles in country


To add, that A-545 rifle looks like a Kalash and an HK mashup. But in a good sorta way.
__________________
.

Это моя винтовка. Существует много, таких как она, но эта единственная моя!
TangoUniform is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 10:39 PM   #25
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Someone got a hold of some AK-74/AK-103 upgrade parts (basically it's for a fixed stock AK-74/AKM) in the aftermarket/for sale section.

Granted, there's also the chance that FB Radom might be importing Beryl M96 and M762 rifles, which sort of have all the AK-74/100 upgrade kit features on them, and can use a AK-74 upgrade kit stock for fixed stock rifles.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 07:31 PM   #26
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Thinking about it for a while, I do wonder how much of an advantage either AK-12 variants have over the AK-74M/AK-103 upgraded rifles? They can mount the same sights and attachments, use the same folding and collapsible stocks, but are already built up aside from having those parts added to them.

Not to mention that since the early 1990s that Izhmash/Kalashnikov Concern have been building better quality rifles that are more accurate and adaptable without sacrificing reliability or other better attributes. They're probably not FB Radom Beryl or Valmet/Sako M62, M76 or M95 quality (to be fair, the Beryl and M76 comparisons are more valid, because the AK-74M and AK-100 rifles are stamped like the Beryl and M76 are), but they're probably more than good enough for combat rifles.

Also, Poland are sticking with the Beryl for much the same reasons for the foreseeable future. The MSBS will probably be like the AK-12, at least for a while, in that it'll mostly be issued to special forces or elite units. Because for being new weapons, they don't represent a huge step forward in battle field performance.

Especially in the case of the AK-12, when AK-74s and AK-103s can be fitted with upgrade kits that give you most of the AK-12 features, and new production AK-74M and AK-103s can be made with the kits for cheaper.

Not to mention IMO, want a real accurate AK though improved sights? Just mount a AK-12/RPK-16 rear leaf sight on the rear of a AK-74M/AK-103 upgraded rifle with the Pic rail on it. Hopefully zeroing shouldn't be a problem, since that same sight fits the same way on the AK-12.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:08 PM   #27
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

I'm embedding a video that Rob Ski found and posted in the AK-47 section about the AK-12/15 and AK-74M/-103 upgraded rifles that Izhmash are making.

Notice that aside from the AK-12/15 rifles, most of the other AKs feature a birdcage/prong type of muzzle brake/flash hider:

BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:52 PM   #28
Aceshigh
Pimp McTastic
 
Aceshigh's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5008
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SCIF
Posts: 9,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris22lr View Post
This is official KC graphic presenting "universal upgrade kit" for AK rifles (aka UUK). UUK consists of new telescopic stock, railed top cover, ergonomic pistol grip (with internal storage), magazine, handguards and muzzle device.
I need like 10 of these kits......

Good lord that would be so awesome if these can come to fruition quickly here in the states.
I'm sick of looking for bandaids to get optics centered. I hate side mounts.
__________________


AK Files custom search
Aceshigh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 12:08 AM   #29
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Anyone got any new photos or info on the Upgrade Kit rifles or the AK-12/15?
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 10:22 AM   #30
Lightstrider
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 177964
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 691
Default



How to mimic the upgrade kit:

-Install AR tube onto a side folding trunnion OR adapt to a standard rear trunnion as shown in that new video.




-Legion's EXOS TI-7 buttstock, AoA's skeletonized buttstock SKBS, Magpul MOE/CTR all seem to look the closest.





-Tapco Intrafuse quadrail handuard (lol funny how they replicated that, i doubt the tapco will hold zero in the front and i wonder about theirs)



-The front end is tricky as there's nothing we can get that'll give us the lugs and cleaning rod holes exactly. But I'd start with a JMAC front sight gas block cause it's the only one I can find that will still hold the cleaning rod at least. Then you could just cut off the sight part of a standard AK100 front sight.



-KVars US flash hider might fit the one in the new video or you'd have to go with one the fancy 74 syle brakes.




-Any grip with grooves I guess, CAA maybe.

-TWS Dog Leg railed dust cover I guess.
Lightstrider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 04:50 PM   #31
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

One thing that should be noted is that it seems that the Russian's have given up on their AKs having the cleaning rod mounted beneath the barrel. The AK-12 doesn't have it as standard, nor do any of the upgrade rifles.

On a note not directly related to the AK-74/100 upgrades, but to one of their competitors (the Beryl), I'm surprised that they don't have a folding stock as standard. Adding a M4 style folder should be easy, and Radom even offered it as part of the M96D upgrade kit that the Polish Army passed over in favor of ordering more M96C Beryl and Mini-Beryls.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 09:17 PM   #32
Lightstrider
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 177964
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 691
Default

Copying the Beryl or not, the new AKs sure look much cooler. I think the Beryl is ugly as fuck.
Lightstrider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 08:10 PM   #33
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Only things I'd like to see with the basic Beryl is a switch to a folding stock and adopting the hinged dust cover with a rail integrated onto it.

I understand why they have the detachable rail due to the side rail and dust cover rails not always being the best at holding zero, but I'd think that the newer AK dust covers and the similar one designed for the M96D would be better than the earlier ad-hoc solutions (The Mini Beryl also has a dust cover with a rail integrated on it and with a rear sight as an option).

Then again, I'd also like to see the Beryl commercial rifles be able to use AK muzzle brakes and such by using suitable modified sight blocks, which would also improve the sight radius, especially on the 5.56mm Beryls with their 18 inch barrels (instead of the 16.3s on AKs and 16.5 on the Beryl M762).

One thing that Radom did get right with the Beryl was the railed handgards. Having that all enveloping retainer at the front does lock them in pretty solidly. In the Vickers Tactical video on the AK-74M upgrade rifle, the original Kalashnikov Group railed front upper handgaurd moved back and forth quite a bit under recoil. I don't know if KC have fixed that or not on newer rifles.

Also, it seems that as I pointed out, there's not one 100% universally approved AK upgrade kit. Some of the older AK-74s are being fitted with the one that has the hinges for the dust cover mounted to the RSB using the holes for the rear sight leaf (which is replaced by a flip sight), and seem to have some push button thing that holds the dust cover down.

AK-74Ms and AK-103s seem to be being fitted with new rear sight blocks with leaf sights, integrated hinges, and a SVD tensioner lever (Sako M92s and M95s have a hand tightened captured screw that does the same thing).

One thing, though, is that I haven't seen many photos of these rifles in comparison to the newer AK-12, which seems to have inspired the upgrade kits to provide infantry with rifles of broadly similar performance and capabilities, as the AK-12 will for now be issued mostly to special forces and elite units.

Also, propose that the AK-74M/AK-103 upgrade rifles are using the AK-12's rear sight instead of the normal leaf sight (the AK-12 rear sight is an apature version of the RPK/PK machine gun rear sight mounted on a rail. As such, it also has a windage drum). Could a AK-74 or AK-103's front sight be zeroed to work with the moved back (and I'd also assume slightly higher sitting) rear sight?

Last edited by BarnOwlLover; 03-23-2017 at 08:16 PM.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 01:48 PM   #34
BarnOwlLover
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190949
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 342
Default

Found a page on upgrades that Radom have made for the Beryl. Few of these have been adopted by the Polish Army (who placed their bets on the MSBS), but look set to be adopted for export rifles if ordered and on commercial rifles:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...news_id%3D4918

These upgrades, though chronologically earlier, mirror those that Kalashnikov Group are doing to AK-74/-74M and AK-100 rifles.
BarnOwlLover is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2015 The AK FIles