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Old 02-06-2017, 11:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Knife wounds View Post
He said he's hunting in Texas. You could use 50BMG if the area you are hunting in allowed it.
That I would like to see. LOL
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:53 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Cowboys1 View Post
Really leaning towards the Savage XP II that comes with Accu trigger, wood stock and a cheap 3-9 Kappa scope for $430. I have a few questions for you guys though.

1. Would the cheap $100 weaver kappa 3-9x40 scope it comes with do me just fine for a one time outing or should I maybe spend a few hundred on a Vortex or something?

2. I'm now considering going with 30-06 instead of .308. Any real pro's or con's to either caliber? ( Yes I know I can google but I like talking to you guys)

3. I'm worried I'll shoot the deer and miss a vital area like the heart or lungs. I don't want the animal to suffer in anyway. If I miss a critical area do I immediately fire again to end the suffering or walk up and use my sidearm? I'm really kinda nervous about that. I would hate to make anything suffer but I don't want to just unload on it either. I'm sure the guys I'm going with will tell me all I need to know most of em been hunting their whole lives. I'm a city boy never had the chance really till now.
The Savage or a Ruger will serve you well as a budget hunting rifle. [Even though a Tikka would give you more pride in ownership]

I would drop a bit more on the scope though. I have a fear of bumping my scope too hard and it loosing it's zero or it not tracking properly, so my scopes normally cost at least half as much as the rifle they're put on. That's just me though.
You don't want to put all that time, money, and effort in on the hunt just to miss a shot on some dream game because your scope wasn't solid enough for the environment.

30-06 is only marginally better than 308 in most bullet weights, so it's really personal preference. Most North American game is taken by both calibers regularly, so you can't really go wrong between two of the most popular calibers in the world.

So far as your last question, after your shot, if the game runs a bit and presents itself for a second shot, then take it. If you see it hit the ground, don't shoot it again, but wait. After you shot it, wait at least 30min before attempting to approach it. The game will suffer even more if you jump it while it's trying to bleed out [peacefully]. I normally sit for at least an hour before blood trailing or approaching game I just shot. If it's still alive when you approach it, you can shot it one more time but try not to mess up any more meat or anything that you plan on tanning or mounting. However, if you hit them in the vitals, they will die on their own if you wait like I said.

Credentials: Been hunting for 20yrs with the exception of a few seasons spent in the middle east.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:51 AM   #73
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Ive been hunting with a tikka 308 wood stock bolt action for four years now. I love the tikka and would recommend it. My only gripe is I cant unload t with the safety on.

I dont recommend the 308 for long range shooting. Yes I get you can long range shoot with any caliber. But 308 has a real big drop after 250 yards. And if you stay with a SFP cheap scope and go for 700 yards with like a 50+ inch drop on the 308. It sounds frustrating to me. Get a good bolt, kill some shit. If you want to shoot for miles pick up a gun tuned for just that later down the road. You will want a flatter caliber with a crazy scope that has parallex adjustment and bullets that cost multiple bucks per shot and a trigger you well may not want on a hunting gun.
No problems competing with .308 out to 1000 yards back in the day. There are better long distance rounds, but accuracy and a reasonable range are not deficiencies for the .308.

Me, I go with a BAR in 300 magnum, because America.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:21 AM   #74
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I have the Rem 700 AAC-SD in .308. Buy one! Youll love it or get the cheaper model of the 700 in .308 if you have to. They will do the job.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:58 AM   #75
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I just picked up a Tikka T3 Hunter Stainless/Fluted in 6.5x55 on closeout from Whittaker Guns. I haven't had it to the range yet but the rifle looks and feels incredible. SO SO smooth and surprisingly lightweight while retaining the "classic hunting rifle" aesthetic. If it shoots as good as it looks, it'll something special.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:33 AM   #76
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It would be hard to go wrong w the Savage Axis XP2 w Weaver Kaspa. I have been really impressed w some of the entry level Weavers in the past. Depending upon how much you think you'll use it I would keep the Kaspa on it until you have a better idea of how you'll use your rifle, how much, is it a beater etc. I'm also a big Savage fan. I got screwed by Remington on a brand new Rem 700 AAC-SD on the trigger recall and am still pissed about it so there is that LOL.

I would stick w .308. There is a shit ton of free ballistic information out there on it and a lot of good easy rules of thumb that have developed over the years regarding zeroing it and shooting at distance w common loads. It also is cheaper than 30-06 and generally will beat you up less both of which should encourage you to practice more.

There is very little game that can't be taken in North America with the proper .308 load and a 22"+ length barrel.

Also, I know your inquiry focuses on hunting, but it never hurts to have a gun inna caliber that our military uses for potential SHTF uses. Maybe not for you, but maybe as a hand out or maybe for you as even a humble Savage Axis .308 can be a pretty damn accurate "sniper" rifle in tough times. (e.g., in Syria many of the fighters refer to any rifle w a scope as a "sniper" rifle and I have seen scoped Mosin Nagants in various war footage).

Although much more expensive and "potentially" less accurate, the one reason I could see leaning towards a semi-auto for hunting is recoil reduction for those that are recoil sensitive.

I was watching a YT video this past weekend by an older gentleman (gapster76?) who had never shot a bolt gun and a SA in the same caliber side by side before, but was encouraged to try it by viewers as he had expressed recoil concerns due shoulder injury and arthritis. In short, big difference to him!

If you are young, not recoil sensitive, or just won't shoot it much (and a lot of adult hunters don't) then that reason goes out the window I think and I would definitely stick w the bolt action. Lighter, fast handling, better balance, more accurate, not load sensitive etc.

Good luck and have fun. You'll be a vet before you know it. Oh, I would watch a video or two on field dressing a deer before you head out just to have a sense of it and get an idea of what if any gear you want to bring (decent knife and or gutting tool, plastic gloves etc). Also hunting videos are fun to watch and give you a better sense of the adrenaline rush you'll feel and how that can affect your shot.
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:27 AM   #77
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Who would get a Remington nowadays? Savage, that called their rifles MSR's and says you don't need more than 4 round magazines? I'd get a Tikka for quality.

Or just use an AK or an AR. I do want a 16' bolt action 308 to control ejection for SHTF, though.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:54 AM   #78
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I'm surprised no one says pick up a used bolt rifle
Good god the supply is endless out there w glass and most of them are like new.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:53 PM   #79
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Deals can be had on used bolt guns.

How the barrel was taken care of is always a concern.

I'd avoid older Rugers on the used market.
Many flat out suck accuracy wise.

Nothing wrong with a 30-06 but the advantages over a 308 with 165 grain bullets and under is small.
One is short action a tad faster and maybe a slightly stiffer action.

The 30-06 is a better choice on bigger game with heavier bullets.

My main deer rifle for 40 years has been a win M70 in 30-06 with rem 150 grain corelock ammo.
Shot a lot of deer dead with it.


Your concerns about a wounded deer are valid.
If you get one down and it's still moving around a lot or getting up a follow up shot with the rifle is ok. Just be aware the more holes the less meat left.

If you get up to one a shot from a side arm of legal calibur is fine. Be damn carefull of what your shooting into . No rocks for example.

Things are not always like on TV with a 75 yard broad side shot and one and done. Often a animal will need to bleed out. Often they may go a ways and often there hard to find.

Only you can decide how you feel about hunting and killing a animal.

95% of hunting is not about the shooting ,the gun or gear.
It's about being out in nature and often with friends and bringing home some meat.

My advice is listen ,ask questions,know your back stop, know your range and your ability and importantly have fun.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:56 PM   #80
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About to pick up a Thompson Center Venture 308 for a steal. Family member giving it away. Wasn't in the market but for 50% off retail for the whole kit (rifle, rings, scope, hard case and 100 rounds), I couldn't pass it up.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:35 PM   #81
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Call me crazy, but as long as you know its limits, the PTR with decent glass and a steady hand will kill things...
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:37 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Rev06 View Post
It would be hard to go wrong w the Savage Axis XP2 w Weaver Kaspa. I have been really impressed w some of the entry level Weavers in the past. Depending upon how much you think you'll use it I would keep the Kaspa on it until you have a better idea of how you'll use your rifle, how much, is it a beater etc. I'm also a big Savage fan. I got screwed by Remington on a brand new Rem 700 AAC-SD on the trigger recall and am still pissed about it so there is that LOL.

I would stick w .308. There is a shit ton of free ballistic information out there on it and a lot of good easy rules of thumb that have developed over the years regarding zeroing it and shooting at distance w common loads. It also is cheaper than 30-06 and generally will beat you up less both of which should encourage you to practice more.

There is very little game that can't be taken in North America with the proper .308 load and a 22"+ length barrel.

Also, I know your inquiry focuses on hunting, but it never hurts to have a gun inna caliber that our military uses for potential SHTF uses. Maybe not for you, but maybe as a hand out or maybe for you as even a humble Savage Axis .308 can be a pretty damn accurate "sniper" rifle in tough times. (e.g., in Syria many of the fighters refer to any rifle w a scope as a "sniper" rifle and I have seen scoped Mosin Nagants in various war footage).

Although much more expensive and "potentially" less accurate, the one reason I could see leaning towards a semi-auto for hunting is recoil reduction for those that are recoil sensitive.

I was watching a YT video this past weekend by an older gentleman (gapster76?) who had never shot a bolt gun and a SA in the same caliber side by side before, but was encouraged to try it by viewers as he had expressed recoil concerns due shoulder injury and arthritis. In short, big difference to him!

If you are young, not recoil sensitive, or just won't shoot it much (and a lot of adult hunters don't) then that reason goes out the window I think and I would definitely stick w the bolt action. Lighter, fast handling, better balance, more accurate, not load sensitive etc.

Good luck and have fun. You'll be a vet before you know it. Oh, I would watch a video or two on field dressing a deer before you head out just to have a sense of it and get an idea of what if any gear you want to bring (decent knife and or gutting tool, plastic gloves etc). Also hunting videos are fun to watch and give you a better sense of the adrenaline rush you'll feel and how that can affect your shot.
Thanks for all the input guys. Rev, the .308 caliber is something I thought about since I already own a PTR 91 chambered in .308 (guess that's all their chambered in lol) so it would be easier far as calibers to stock up on goes. I am 99% sure I'm goin .308. Just trying to weight the balance between the budget savage or a little more for the Tikka that everyone (not just on this thread) raves about.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:43 AM   #83
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Call me crazy, but as long as you know its limits, the PTR with decent glass and a steady hand will kill things...
I originally bought a primary arms 3x prism scope for it but decided to throw that on my frankenstein AR instead. I'm currently looking to get either a PA 1-6 acss or the Vortex strike eagle. Either would go on an American defense recon QD mount. That aside though I'm still gonna buy a bolt gun. My bolt gun I have no idea what optic to get. I think 3-9 would be prefect probably but don't know where to begin. I'd like to try and keep optic price under $300 if possible.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:53 AM   #84
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I got a Primary Arms 4-14 with the .308 reticule for my deer rifle.

I have a Savage in 7mm Rem mag. It's for larger game.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:43 PM   #85
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:16 PM   #86
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Nice pic eTown and a lot of great advice 1Big et al (watching backstop etc).

Cowboys, I didn't read your OP before I posted and now I have. So yeah, pls disregard half my post LOL. You obviously know .308 if you have a PTR-91. I do as well. Love it. Would NOT want to haul it around hunting however, drop it out of stand etc. nor expose myself to inevitable ribbing from the good ole boy traditional hunters.

One of my Fudd best friends at my BOL where I grew up has dropped 20 deer in the last 15 years or so and is still on his SECOND 20Rd box of ammo LOL. Apparently that includes checking the zero prior to going out. So no, they wouldn't get "needing" a .308 that holds 20Rds in a DBM LOL (even if you were using a converted 5Rd G3 mag, which I do have, JIC).

You asked about glass Cowboys. That's going to get some replies! There are a lot of what non-scope snobs would consider good quality scopes out there in that $300 range. That's one advantage of going w a less expensive, but still good quality bolt gun -- more money for the glass.

Burris, Vortex, Nikon, Primary Arms, even Leupold all have good quality scopes in that range for hunting and even say 450 Yds in for potential target shooting.

Rob Ski has made hits WITH AN AK out to 600 w a 1-6 Primary Arms I think and other relatively low powered scopes. I point this out because I think a lot of guys are "over scoped" in terms of the maximum power and they sacrifice other qualities or price to get there.

You just don't need say 24X or even 16X for hunting. I would MUCH rather have a scope w really clear glass that allows for maximum light transmission so you can see at dawn and dusk when you need it. My eyes are getting a bit older (astigmatism etc) so if I were buying right now I "might" spend up for an illuminated reticle like Burris uses or Leupold has on their VX-R I think.

An illuminated dot on the reticle also might be an easier transition to hunting since most of us have used red dots a lot for more training or practicing for more stressful type shooting situations like SD as opposed to long range bench rest target shooting where you really can use a fine reticle and take your time etc.

I have and like a Nikon M-308 I bought a few years back, but if I were doing it today I think I could get more scope for the money and likely a LIGHTER scope as well. But the M-308 is a good scope especially for a DMR type gun w a bipod.

Another scope I have heard GREAT things about from people w experience is the SSWFA fixed 10X scopes. Fixed power are not for everybody, but I have a hankering for one given their reputation for durability and this one is supposed to be good. That would not be for hunting so much as for long range or DMR use where distance is unknown and you could use the range finding abilities on the scope.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:31 PM   #87
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Bucket mentioned the T/C Venture. $450 blued/$500 stainless. 5R rifling. Nice trigger. Accurate with factory ammo. No wood stock option, however. Outstanding customer service. 3-9x scope is plenty, IMHO.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:35 PM   #88
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I think a PTR with a 3-5x scope is good. A short barreled bolt action would be good in certain things.

Haha, what's the other new bullcrap caliber they are pushing now? The 6.5 Creedmoor? Isn't that the latest bullshit?

Get a god damn 308 and save the hurt of Gun Magazine/Youtube Industry bullshit.

The barrel life on in the 308 is great. And I think outside the AK, semi auto 308's aka Cold War era battle rifles are some of the finest rifles ever made. Whether it's a cool ass M-14, an Imbel FAL, or even a PTR-91, they are all out fucking standing.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:17 PM   #89
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Bucket mentioned the T/C Venture. $450 blued/$500 stainless. 5R rifling. Nice trigger. Accurate with factory ammo. No wood stock option, however. Outstanding customer service. 3-9x scope is plenty, IMHO.
I got a stainless Venture, 100 rounds, hard case, nikon prostaff 3x9, scope rings, side saddle and spare factory mag...approx $1000 retail product for $380. Gun probably has 100 rounds through it. Couldn't pass it up.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:13 PM   #90
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http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...k-41?a=1805429

CZ 550 FS, looks classy they shoot great and the bolt runs smooth
Was just going to post this. Cannot go wrong with European crafted walnut stock and hammer forged blued steel.
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First, I don't believe its "legal" for your (buyer) to possess a "Folding Stock" for anything AK in the State of California without the "Verified/Current and Appropriate California Assault Weapon Registration PaperWork for a Folding Stocked AK. -Identified by Length, Style, Capable of Concealment, etc. AW Restrictions."
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:02 PM   #91
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I have had a weaver 4x on my 30-06 first bolt action ( win m70)
For over 40 years.
I sighted it in myself when I was 12.
Dad took the pad off so it fit me better .

I have had to adjust that scope only twice in that time.
Once for 165 grain bullets I took to Colorado and again going back to 150's.
It's been good enough for countless black and white tail and mule deer as well as pigs ,bear,coyotes and a antalope and a few other things. None shot from a stand.

Keep light gathering in mind something the old weaver could be better at with its small lense but the smaller od of the scope allow you to get the cross hairs closer to the bore. This is important for a good cheak weld to the stock also the closer to the bore the less compensation needed for close shots.

I see way to many guys with huge objective lenses mounted way to high off the gun. Then you got the guy trying to hold his head up to see through the scope.
You cant shoot fast or very well like this.
A properly set up rifle will allow you to see a animal close your eyes throw the rifle up and be on target or at least on the animal.
Long range set ups can be a bit differant were speed is not the main goal.

I look for a scope that's known not to fog up in cold weather and has good light gathering.


If your not hunting over 200 yards I'd recommend a fixed 4x. Any thing bigger and it's hard to find game fast.

Variables are nice and good ones hold zero just fine.
if longer range is in the plans mil dot or other cross hairs that allows accurate hold over are a good choice.
Knowing at what ranges those dots zero at is important and why you practice. On a variable make sure the end pice dosent wiggle . I had a old Bushnell that would loose zero if you moved the end. Cost me a nice buck.

On a 308 or 30-06 I sight in my zero 1" hight at 100 yards.

Shoot your rifle from 25 ,50,100 ,200 and know we're it hits.
The close up impacts will surprise you. Remeamber that height of the optic above the barrel thing.

Optics under $200 are not going to be that great but will work . $300 and up in a lower power optic and you start getting in to better quality .

I like Burris for a good mid priced optic.

A good optic is often more expensive than the rifle.
You don't need a $500 scope to go hunting .
A cheap scope will let you down at the worst possable time.
Also keep in mind a good scope will work on other rifles down the road.

I have a box full of cheap BSA,Tasco, Chinese Weavers, Barska and other crap that won't adjust,hold zero, fog up or just broke. Spend extra once if you can.

A good warranty is important.
Read them before you buy. Some of that cheap crap costs more to pay the handeling charge than there worth.

Ziess snd Leopold make good stuff and have mid range options in the 3x9 area.
The Leopold rifleman line is a cheap optic of so so quality that uses the name to sell IMO.
I have a 3x9 rifleman on a AK and it's fine so far. Not the normal high quality but no real issues yet.
Leopold owns Redfield now and some guts like the new Redfields .
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:38 AM   #92
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Great advice again 1big. I mentioned the height over bore issue at close range to the buddy I mentioned who tags out every year as he uses a lever gun .308 (Browning) w really high see through rings. A light clicked on and he told me he had been scratching his head a couple of years at having missed close up shots (say 35-50 yards).

I practice a lot of CQB (25 yards and in) w AKs and even w AK irons you need to be VERY aware of that height over bore if you want to really get dialed in (e.g., a theoretical hostage rescue shot or other tight CQB shot).
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:32 PM   #93
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I originally bought a primary arms 3x prism scope for it but decided to throw that on my frankenstein AR instead. I'm currently looking to get either a PA 1-6 acss or the Vortex strike eagle. Either would go on an American defense recon QD mount. That aside though I'm still gonna buy a bolt gun. My bolt gun I have no idea what optic to get. I think 3-9 would be prefect probably but don't know where to begin. I'd like to try and keep optic price under $300 if possible.
Scopes depend a lot on your actual environment. For big game, even at extended ranges, 4-5x is plenty. Additionally, trying to use anything over 5-6x in a 3-9x40 at first/last light is just going to be too dark (look into exit pupil diameter if you don't know what it is, it really helps narrow down the usability of a scope before even trying one).

For me, a fixed 4X is perfect, and if not that, something in a 2-8x range will be just as usable as a 3-9x, and weigh less, as will some of the other options in between 2-8x and 1-4x. If you don't want to spend more than $300, look at Leupold. The quality and warranty is outstanding, and they're who I stick with. The VX-2 2-7x33 for a variable or FX-II 4x33 for a fixed would be perfect.

I also might know a guy selling a lightly-used FX-II for well below retail, btw
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:46 PM   #94
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I have a weaver K3 on one of my mausers in 30-06
It's about as low as you can go and is very fast handeling.

My grandmother had a 3x on here 244 remington since 1957 and it's still on the gun and being used by my son.

It was good enough for her to kill over a hundred deer.
Some I was lucky enough to witness first hand..

On a deer rifle that see 300 yards and under mostly . I'd look hard at a 4x with a 42 or 44 mm object lense with a good rep for light transmission.

I have had a few bucks I could not see at first and last light in woods or in canyons.

Fixed power falls into the KISS method of hunting gear.


There are so many new options it's hard to keep up.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:59 AM   #95
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If your hunts involve lots of hiking, you will really appreciate a light weight rife. Tikkas are awesome, If I had to buy another deer/elk rifle it would be another Tikka. The only down side I could think of is they only come with long action receivers.

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Old 02-14-2017, 12:52 PM   #96
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Since Pa is now going allow semi-autos for deer hunting this year, the first trip out is either going to be with the ptr or 308 vepr. Both will be good dear rifles though a little heavy but i'll manage.

No reason not to and it will annoy those hunters that opposed it.

Last edited by lardmonkey; 02-14-2017 at 12:53 PM. Reason: I don spel know gooood
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:45 PM   #97
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https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...H+XP+308+NIKON

this is the best deal going IMHO. Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard are also very nice for the price if you can find one but that Savage comes with a Nikon scope for about the same $. I wouldnt piss on an Axis or those Mossberg rifles fucking POS
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:39 PM   #98
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While I have not been fortunate enough to take a deer yet, I own a REM 700 chambered in .270 and it's will put two bullets through the same hole at 200 yards if you do your work. Leopold 3x-9x for glass and I inherited this combo from my Grandma, who HAS taken many deer with it. So it's an old rifle.

Again, haven't gotten to fire at a deer, so I can only offer my view on its accuracy at a static target. I would LOVE to get a quality deer with the rifle.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:40 PM   #99
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Quote:
No reason not to and it will annoy those hunters that opposed it
.

Most hunters don't care what you carry but how you act with what you carry.
Going a field with a mind set to piss off other hunters or not giving a crap is not what hunting is generaly about.

I hunt with all sorts of SA rifles and pistols and yet I see idiots shooting like ass holes with ARS and other stuff all the time. It not the gun guys get pissed about its the mind set some guys who some times use certain guns who some times have never hunted that bothers people.

A SA is capiable of one well placed shot or even a couple like any other rifle. Guys going Rambo and shooting like idiots or unsafe won't fly.
Good way not to be invited back or run off private land.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:21 PM   #100
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I've heard good things about the weatherby vanguard s2 line, and they have a combo pack that comes with (I believe) a leupold vx-3 3-9 scope in your target budget range.

The Tikka T3x line is amazing, although you can probably pick up an older model T3 on closeout - the new features (metal bolt shroud, larger ejection port, 'quieter stock', and a metal lug?) may not be worth the price difference to you.

I picked up a T3x CTR (kinda heavy for stalking) in 6.5 creedmoor and it is fantastic. Magazine prices are crazy though.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:31 AM   #101
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30/30 marlin lever action... east to reload, easy safety just pull the hammer down to fire.. and similar in size and weight to an ak
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:06 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSundanceKid View Post
30/30 marlin lever action... east to reload, easy safety just pull the hammer down to fire.. and similar in size and weight to an ak
My dad received a Marlin 336 for his 16th birthday. He will soon be 55 years old and it's the only deer rifle he's ever owned.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:11 AM   #103
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Another plus is the side ejection for overbore scope mount.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:06 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypatchwork View Post
My dad received a Marlin 336 for his 16th birthday. He will soon be 55 years old and it's the only deer rifle he's ever owned.
They are great guns... perfect size imo and lighter than a 30-06 so it's not a pain lugging it around
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:06 PM   #105
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Cowboy did you get anything yet?
I'm looking to get a 308 bolt wood stocked as well. Here's a savage 10/110 trophy hunter with Nikon 3- 9 $530 I might pick up.
http://grabagun.com/savage-10thxp-pk...wd-bl-dbm.html
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