Up to 60% Off Daily Deal Products. Palmetto State Armory

Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > Shotguns

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2019, 07:40 PM   #1
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default VEPR 12 with folding stock first impressions Now with video

Well, initial impressions are not good. I was thinking this thing would have the quality of the rifles I love so much but it is sorely lacking. This shotgun had the tiny weld underneath the receiver which held the stock in a fixed position. I knew that going in and no big deal, cut the weld neatly and everything is fine except the tubes of the stock are moving in where they go into the folding mechanism. I think the pins are not tight or the holes in the tubing have egged out. This folding assembly is nowhere near the quality of the one on the rifle. I would actually say junk.
Let's talk about the trigger for a minute. The stock trigger in the rifle is not a bad piece. This thing?.........The casting has holes, is uneven, absolutely terrible. I spent an hour with files, sanding, stoning......nothing can save this thing. ALG here we come. First impressions are not good. Everything seems like an afterthought with this thing. Im hoping it runs well when I take it out tomorrow. I have fitted the csspec mags I bought for it and if there is a saving grace, the mags are beautiful! Have a large selection of ammo and we will see what happens. Hopefully I change my mind about this thing.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Last edited by mojoracing; 03-18-2019 at 08:04 PM.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 02:33 AM   #2
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Ok, didn't mention that this is a NIB unfired shotgun. It is a WPA import. I was getting it ready tonight so I could go to the range in the morning. Tore it completely down and cleaned and lubed it. I have cycled it by hand a whole bunch just to run things in a bit. Trigger was super rough, rougher than any ak fcg I have come across. I smoothed out and polished the mating surfaces on the hammer and they will do for now but an upgrade will definitely be the next thing I do. I installed a molot gk-02 brake tonight and fitted three csspec 10 round mags. So, I should be ready for tomorrow and with any luck it will run well. I will be happy if it runs 3 dram loads but would be nice to see it run 2 3/4 dram too. One thing I found surprising while looking it over is that they weld the fsb to the front trunnion. Have not had the hand guard off so I don't know if the weld continues, Barrel pin is tiny. I will have to take this thing apart again and take a closer look. Things are definitely different than an akm. Maybe the barrel isn't pinned and is retained in another way? Certainly interesting.
Anyhow, after a closer look i guess the only thing I am really disappointed in is the movement in the stock. I believe I read about this somewhere while researching the gun. It must be a common issue. Does anyone have a fix? If I can get it tightened up somehow and it runs well, I guess it will be a keeper. I will report back tomorrow after a range session.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 09:51 AM   #3
giantpune
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 188807
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 5,677
Default

So you haven't even shot the thing and you're already complaining about it and replacing parts you don't even know need replaced?
giantpune is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 12:19 PM   #4
AllTen
Member
 
AKaholic #: 181458
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 283
Default

By all means find out what ammo the gun will run, but after that you might want to consider the CSS folding adaptor which is specifically designed for the folder, and the CSS pin, which line up whatever stock you put on the w/the axis of the barrel instead of the stock "drooping" down.

The original pin to the hinge where the stock pivots on the rear of the gun is driven in from the top of the gun, so you'll have to turn the gun upside down to drive it back out. If you wang on it from the top, you'll be beating on it forever and/or end up having to drill the pin out.

Save yourself and/or the gunny doing the work a lot of headaches, go at the pin w/the gun upside down.

The pin ain't gonna come out from the top; of course as soon as I say that, somebody will luck out and get the thing out banging from the top.

Last edited by AllTen; 03-14-2019 at 12:28 PM.
AllTen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 12:43 PM   #5
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by giantpune View Post
So you haven't even shot the thing and you're already complaining about it and replacing parts you don't even know need replaced?
Yes, I am. Vepr rifles are in my opinion some of the finest rifles available. I was a bit taken back by the shotgun. Not a huge deal but they certainly could have though out their stocks a little better. As far as replacing things......Im going to do it regardless so why not take known issues and attend to them? These guns need to be slicked up a bit in order to run lower power loads. Most will run stuff from 3 1/4 drams on up but if you want to run anything less powerful or the "cheap stuff" you have to make a few changes......most of the time, not all the time. So, in order to prevent failures and anxiety, I do a little work before hand. Nothing major, reprofile the trigger (which I end up replacing with an alg on everything I own anyways), inspect the gas ports for proper alignment and make sure they are clear and make sure there are no super rough spots for things to hang up on. Then its just the usual, adjust the safety so it moves freely etc.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 12:48 PM   #6
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
By all means find out what ammo the gun will run, but after that you might want to consider the CSS folding adaptor which is specifically designed for the folder, and the CSS pin, which line up whatever stock you put on the w/the axis of the barrel instead of the stock "drooping" down.

The original pin to the hinge where the stock pivots on the rear of the gun is driven in from the top of the gun, so you'll have to turn the gun upside down to drive it back out. If you wang on it from the top, you'll be beating on it forever and/or end up having to drill the pin out.

Save yourself and/or the gunny doing the work a lot of headaches, go at the pin w/the gun upside down.

The pin ain't gonna come out from the top; of course as soon as I say that, somebody will luck out and get the thing out banging from the top.
Yep, I put one on a buddies gun. They are adefinitely a nice piece. I think I have a solution for the stock stock LOL . If it doesnt work Im going with the carolina piece. And you are correct on the way the pin goes in. VEPR'S, Arsenals, they all go in from the top. Im excited to try the fix for this stock, if it works i will detail the process and no, its not running a bunch of self tapping screws through the side of the thing like I have seen a few hillrods do. LOL!
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 01:39 PM   #7
frick
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 179158
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 511
Default

It sounds to me like you would be better served with a 500 dollar chinese Saiga clone, or one of the DDI ones that are so much better than a VEPR.

As for light loads, first and foremost, if you are going to use them in combat, then you deserve your weapon to fail.

My Remington 1100 doesn't work well with light loads, and most don't, hence, why its recommended that you use high brass or some other higher velocity round, with a heavy weight of slug or buckshot.

If your VEPR can shoot light loads at all, be glad you can use them for ahem, training purposes.

I wouldn't have sympathy for someone whose AK won't run the lightweight East German training ammo, nor would I for someone whose 12 gauge auto won't run cheap hunting loaded shells.

Especially when you haven't even fired it enough to be considered "Broken in".

As for its folding stock, its main benefit is being able to fire with the stock closed, same as an underfolder AK, and we all know that an underfolder is NOT the best stock for an AK, they wobble, almost all do, but that shitty stock is the trade off for compactness.

The stock issues are well known, and written about the VEPR already, if you don't like it, change it to a fixed, or buy one with a fixed stock to begin with.

Bitching just to bitch at day one, with no time shooting it? Lame.
frick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 09:40 AM   #8
Desolo
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 178071
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Burgaw NC
Posts: 551
Default

Mine had the wobble you described. I noticed it after shooting it.... It was a VERY VERY minor wobble, and it was just enough to annoy me.... I used a little bit of penetrating thread locker on the point where the tubes go into, and are pinned, in the block (NOT the folding part, the part that is the "end" of the stock, that is in turn where it is attached to the folding pin) and voila, no more wobble.

Mine also has ran whatever I put in it, down to federal bulk pack.

Shoot the damn thing, break it in, THEN worry about anything else.

Last edited by Desolo; 03-15-2019 at 09:45 AM.
Desolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 11:03 AM   #9
PORTER
Been there done that.
 
AKaholic #: 184098
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bremerton Wa
Posts: 1,725
Default

I am breaking mine in and it doesn't like anything I have put thru it so far. Started with the cheaps, then to 1290fps, now onto high brass which I believe will cycle it according to what I read. It was new when I got it and is very tight, no wobble as you descrined. My advice spend the extra and get the proper loads that it will run since it's new or you are going to get frustrated. Looking forward to you reporting back with your experience as you are at the same point as me.
__________________
It is better to prepare and never have to use than not to prepare at all.
PORTER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 04:12 PM   #10
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frick View Post
It sounds to me like you would be better served with a 500 dollar chinese Saiga clone, or one of the DDI ones that are so much better than a VEPR.

As for light loads, first and foremost, if you are going to use them in combat, then you deserve your weapon to fail.

My Remington 1100 doesn't work well with light loads, and most don't, hence, why its recommended that you use high brass or some other higher velocity round, with a heavy weight of slug or buckshot.

If your VEPR can shoot light loads at all, be glad you can use them for ahem, training purposes.

I wouldn't have sympathy for someone whose AK won't run the lightweight East German training ammo, nor would I for someone whose 12 gauge auto won't run cheap hunting loaded shells.

Especially when you haven't even fired it enough to be considered "Broken in".

As for its folding stock, its main benefit is being able to fire with the stock closed, same as an underfolder AK, and we all know that an underfolder is NOT the best stock for an AK, they wobble, almost all do, but that shitty stock is the trade off for compactness.

The stock issues are well known, and written about the VEPR already, if you don't like it, change it to a fixed, or buy one with a fixed stock to begin with.

Bitching just to bitch at day one, with no time shooting it? Lame.
You have things wrong. I absolutely love my VEPR rifles. Problem is the stock on this thing just is'nt up to the usual Molot quality. Same goes for the trigger which Im not going to blame on Molot as its a us piece. The only thing Im bitching about is the stock.

Now to get to the rest of it. Shot it yesterday after smoothing things up a bit the night before. The good news is everything down to 3 drams runs flawlessly in the factory 5 round mag. Csspec 10 rounders function well with slugs and buckshot but will not cycle properly with 3 dram federal bulk pack. Still very impressive when just a little smoothing of things and reprofiling of hammer allows it to run 3 dram loads and actually even ran bulk winchester which although marked 3 dram is more like 2 3/4 dram. So need a little more oomph to get the light stuff running in the csspec's. Ordered a new guide rod, performance spring and puck today. Going to clean up the rails and carrier a bit more and thing should be running well.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 04:21 PM   #11
Deerhurst
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 195346
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTER View Post
I am breaking mine in and it doesn't like anything I have put thru it so far. Started with the cheaps, then to 1290fps, now onto high brass which I believe will cycle it according to what I read. It was new when I got it and is very tight, no wobble as you descrined. My advice spend the extra and get the proper loads that it will run since it's new or you are going to get frustrated. Looking forward to you reporting back with your experience as you are at the same point as me.
I love my Vepr. It cycles 3.25DRAM and doesnt really like anything lighter. Try some Winchester super speed or the cheap Walmart Remington trap loads. My 20ga saiga and my V12 like the Remington for some reason. The stiffer hull helps a bunch.

Mine is also rock solid but not a folder and nor do I want it to fold.
__________________
7.62x51|7.62x39|7.62x25|5.56x45|5.45x39|9x19|12x76 |20x76|410x76
Deerhurst is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 04:22 PM   #12
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frick View Post
It sounds to me like you would be better served with a 500 dollar chinese Saiga clone, or one of the DDI ones that are so much better than a VEPR.

As for light loads, first and foremost, if you are going to use them in combat, then you deserve your weapon to fail.

My Remington 1100 doesn't work well with light loads, and most don't, hence, why its recommended that you use high brass or some other higher velocity round, with a heavy weight of slug or buckshot.

If your VEPR can shoot light loads at all, be glad you can use them for ahem, training purposes.

I wouldn't have sympathy for someone whose AK won't run the lightweight East German training ammo, nor would I for someone whose 12 gauge auto won't run cheap hunting loaded shells.

Especially when you haven't even fired it enough to be considered "Broken in".

As for its folding stock, its main benefit is being able to fire with the stock closed, same as an underfolder AK, and we all know that an underfolder is NOT the best stock for an AK, they wobble, almost all do, but that shitty stock is the trade off for compactness.

The stock issues are well known, and written about the VEPR already, if you don't like it, change it to a fixed, or buy one with a fixed stock to begin with.

Bitching just to bitch at day one, with no time shooting it? Lame.
Lose the fucking attitude. I suppose your using your shotgun in "combat"? You in a warzone dousche? Nobody said anything about training. Its being used in 3 gun competition. Try running your 1100 in that and you'll get your ass smoked. These guns can and do run light loads when set up properly. As for the stock, yes it should not wobble like two twigs tied together with twine but Im sure you're happy with shit not working correctly. My vepr rifles with folding stocks are just fine. Molot screwed the pooch on these things but fanboys feel as if someone criticizing their favorite gun is a personal attack. Nobody likes veprs more than me but im willing to admit when something was designed wrong. It will be fixed this evening with a special threadlocker that has a better capability to fill gaps and by time the gun is used in competition it will have a carolina m4 sconversion to change the factory folder to basically a factory m4 folder. You spouted off without knowing all the facts but thats what know it all fan boys do.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 04:23 PM   #13
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerhurst View Post
I love my Vepr. It cycles 3.25DRAM and doesnt really like anything lighter. Try some Winchester super speed or the cheap Walmart Remington trap loads. My 20ga saiga and my V12 like the Remington for some reason. The stiffer hull helps a bunch.

Mine is also rock solid but not a folder and nor do I want it to fold.
Mine was running winchester super speed flawlessly yesterday. It actually ran everything flawlessly out of factory mag. Hopefully by sunday its doing just as well with the csspecs
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 04:58 PM   #14
AllTen
Member
 
AKaholic #: 181458
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 283
Talking

You owe yourself a beer for getting a gun that shoots everything right out of the box.
AllTen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 05:39 PM   #15
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
You owe yourself a beer for getting a gun that shoots everything right out of the box.
Nope. That was the point of the thread in a way. Before I ran it, I took the time to reprofile the trigger, polish up the carrier a bit, make sure there were no obvious rough spots on carrier, rails, hammer etc., and make sure the gas ports were unobstructed and aligned.
I don't think it would have ran as good as it did without doing just a bit of "slicking". I mean, maybe it would have but when I get a new gun, I always tear it down and at a minimum make sure there are no metal bits in the action or barrel, that kind of thing. So with a shotgun that is known to have a hard time running light loads, why not do all you can to make sure its going to do its best before you make a trip to the range? Anyhow, Yes, I'm impressed that it ran as well as it did. I will take care of the stock issue this weekend and the other parts I have coming should allow it to run just about anything with the mags I have choosen. A few guys thought I was slamming the gun but nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, the stock is a hunk of shit and should have been executed differently in my opinion but besides that, I'm a fan and always have been. Its hard to find anything better than a VEPR rifle or shotgun. I'll update after the parts get here and I have a video coming out on my Youtube Channel that goes through the whole gun and the changes made. I think I will have a beer!
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 05:50 PM   #16
frick
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 179158
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
You owe yourself a beer for getting a gun that shoots everything right out of the box.
And finding the need to be a whining bitch about it in public, before doing an about face, and finding everything in the world to love about it.

Gotta go find some combat now!

I'm in the VEPR Douche Brigade, BTW, I used the correct spelling for douche, douche.
frick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 07:46 PM   #17
AllTen
Member
 
AKaholic #: 181458
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 283
Default

Then after reading all this, I'm going to threat myself to a beer.
Ichiban Prime Brew or some Mean Apple Cider.



I went through this awhile ago, w/2 Vepr 12's, one that was smooth out of the box, and one that was the opposite, Jekyll and Hyde.



Still hand cycled the smooth V12 at least 1000 times, my other V12 way more than a 1000 (maybe even twice that/I lost count), sand/polished both guns w/various grits and emory and then sanded again.



Vepr 2, my V12 which wasn't smooth out of the box, had a COMPLETELY jacked up hammer w/a chunk of metal missing, and I guess whoever was assembling these guns at the factory that night loved inflicting pain, and they put it in anyway to make me work.................This is Vepr 2 in my big vise, and this is how the hammer looked out of the box...........








About midway through the process, and after who knows how many polishings it looked like this....








After countless hours, and zonked one night, I stopped/finished/quit/called time.................whatever it was, and ended it, resulting in this.........









More sweat equity than I ever anticipated particularly to get the gun in the ballpark of my first gun which came right, right out of the box.


So I've seen this go both ways, and up close.


I can now run my Federal Flite Control #1 buck @1100fps low recoil or whatever you call it, thru either gun absolutely no sweat/hiccups/farts/burps................anything.


But I would say to you, my personal understanding of this is from getting 2 guns which were absolutely different (and I'm not talking about the rear end) re the internals. Same gun, but one of my guns was rough around the edges but was smooth, and the other gun a mess. I'm sure if you get my smooth gun shipped to somebody, they'll have one view of the gun, and if they got my second v12 shipped to them, they'd have another view.

AND YES.................the fact that there can be that great a difference betweet the same guns coming from the same factory isn't on whoever buys them (this has been widely discussed already).




So I've been where you've been, and I'll wish you good luck, and instead of everybody/anybody getting worked up, maybe we'll all bust out w/some favorite brew.

Last edited by AllTen; 03-15-2019 at 08:31 PM.
AllTen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 08:15 PM   #18
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frick View Post
And finding the need to be a whining bitch about it in public, before doing an about face, and finding everything in the world to love about it.

Gotta go find some combat now!

I'm in the VEPR Douche Brigade, BTW, I used the correct spelling for douche, douche.
I never did an about face on anything. Perhaps read the thread again. Here is what I wrote in the first post:

""everything is fine except the tubes of the stock are moving in where they go into the folding mechanism. I think the pins are not tight or the holes in the tubing have egged out. This folding assembly is nowhere near the quality of the one on the rifle. I would actually say junk.
Let's talk about the trigger for a minute. The stock trigger in the rifle is not a bad piece. This thing?.........The casting has holes, is uneven, absolutely terrible.""

The only complaining I had was the stock and the shitty US fcg they put in the thing. I even said in the first post I love my vepr rifles. If complaining about (or whining as you put it) an issue then your in the wrong place. The point is that Molot builds fine weapons and this stock certainly doesn't reflect their capabilities. Please don't try to justify your behavior.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 12:32 AM   #19
Deerhurst
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 195346
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Mine was running winchester super speed flawlessly yesterday. It actually ran everything flawlessly out of factory mag. Hopefully by sunday its doing just as well with the csspecs
That's fairly light stuff but cheap crappy hulls. Try running some universal if you want to test it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Lose the fucking attitude. I suppose your using your shotgun in "combat"? You in a warzone dousche? Nobody said anything about training. Its being used in 3 gun competition. Try running your 1100 in that and you'll get your ass smoked. These guns can and do run light loads when set up properly. As for the stock, yes it should not wobble like two twigs tied together with twine but Im sure you're happy with shit not working correctly. My vepr rifles with folding stocks are just fine. Molot screwed the pooch on these things but fanboys feel as if someone criticizing their favorite gun is a personal attack. Nobody likes veprs more than me but im willing to admit when something was designed wrong. It will be fixed this evening with a special threadlocker that has a better capability to fill gaps and by time the gun is used in competition it will have a carolina m4 sconversion to change the factory folder to basically a factory m4 folder. You spouted off without knowing all the facts but thats what know it all fan boys do.
1100s do fantastic in 3gun. They are lightning quick and reliable. In combat I wouldn't hesitate to run one.

3gun is training and some dammed good training. These days morons are trying to turn it into a useless game like all the pistol stuff has turned into where everyone crys if the same timer isn't used or if a sharget shifts. Get over it. That's real life. If you can't compensate for that get off the range.

Vepr didn't screw the pooch. They made a fantastic firearm. You apparently have never used or touched a Saiga 20ga. You don't know what it means to have an AK pattern shotgun that is unreliable or picky until you've had a vodka special S-20. I'd have been more than happy to have a wobbly stock as that's an easy fix. Several months tuning to be able to run high brass 3" buckshot with the gas system closed is shitty. It now runs low brass Remington trap loads like a champ. Love that shotgun.

If you don't feed a Vepr, or Saiga, the right stuff it'll choke every time. You need enough oomph but also need a quality hull. The cheap shit you are trying to use is crap. Those thin flimsy hulls will cause you problems. Run brass or a nice tough hull. I've been happy with the thicker hulls on the Remington shells.

Get your facts strait. It'll help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
You owe yourself a beer for getting a gun that shoots everything right out of the box.
I agree. No AK shotgun will run everything. It just doesn't work that way. It'll either like hot loads and choke on light loads or like light loads and hammer it's self to death on hot stuff. It's just not how the piston system works which is unlike the inertial system found on most traditional semi auto shotguns.

That said I've been pleasantly surprised by my 410 saiga but my 20ga saiga lives on the lighter end of the spectrum now. The Vepr runs like a champ with medium to hot loads. And I didn't even have to put it on a mill or drill press unlike the Saiga 20. Even my Cheetah 12 likes medium to hot loads with a min of 3.25DRAM.
__________________
7.62x51|7.62x39|7.62x25|5.56x45|5.45x39|9x19|12x76 |20x76|410x76
Deerhurst is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 01:37 AM   #20
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerhurst View Post
That's fairly light stuff but cheap crappy hulls. Try running some universal if you want to test it.



1100s do fantastic in 3gun. They are lightning quick and reliable. In combat I wouldn't hesitate to run one.

3gun is training and some dammed good training. These days morons are trying to turn it into a useless game like all the pistol stuff has turned into where everyone crys if the same timer isn't used or if a sharget shifts. Get over it. That's real life. If you can't compensate for that get off the range.

Vepr didn't screw the pooch. They made a fantastic firearm. You apparently have never used or touched a Saiga 20ga. You don't know what it means to have an AK pattern shotgun that is unreliable or picky until you've had a vodka special S-20. I'd have been more than happy to have a wobbly stock as that's an easy fix. Several months tuning to be able to run high brass 3" buckshot with the gas system closed is shitty. It now runs low brass Remington trap loads like a champ. Love that shotgun.

If you don't feed a Vepr, or Saiga, the right stuff it'll choke every time. You need enough oomph but also need a quality hull. The cheap shit you are trying to use is crap. Those thin flimsy hulls will cause you problems. Run brass or a nice tough hull. I've been happy with the thicker hulls on the Remington shells.

Get your facts strait. It'll help.



I agree. No AK shotgun will run everything. It just doesn't work that way. It'll either like hot loads and choke on light loads or like light loads and hammer it's self to death on hot stuff. It's just not how the piston system works which is unlike the inertial system found on most traditional semi auto shotguns.

That said I've been pleasantly surprised by my 410 saiga but my 20ga saiga lives on the lighter end of the spectrum now. The Vepr runs like a champ with medium to hot loads. And I didn't even have to put it on a mill or drill press unlike the Saiga 20. Even my Cheetah 12 likes medium to hot loads with a min of 3.25DRAM.
Agreed on the Winchester. The hulls are super thin. But it ran it. Like I said, it was just an experiment. Mainly because most say its dam near impossible to run.

As far as the 1100, great gun and can run well. But cant keep up with a vepr or saiga and a few other autos.

Agreed on the 3 gun nobody ever said it wasn't training. For some reason the idiot that posted thought training was less manly and that the gun should only be used for "combat". On your other point, like any sport, you're going to have your bitches.

By Molot screwing the pooch I meant only as far as the stock goes. It's shit. period, end of story. I guess nobody reads the whole thread. I AM A HUGE FAN OF VEPR RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS. But I will call em as I see em. The stock on the shotgun has an inferior design, mainly where the tubes attach to the folding hinge plate. Let's not even get into the 3 degree rake. (I actually dont mind it)

Veprs can and will reliably shoot the bulk federal 3 dram. Every one I've had has done it. Only one did it out of the box, this one did it with the tiniest bit of work and will run them with the csspec mags when Im done with it. I think you mistakenly believe Im bitching about it not running the low power stuff. Im not. I understand what these guns were made to run. I also understand that what we are asking them to do was not within their original design parameters although some will argue that because they were labeled as "hunting" guns when imported that because of that label somehow they should run anything out of the box which of course just isn't true. All I set out to do here was state how I was getting the gun ready for its first day at the range. The hope was that with the few little things I did that I've learned over the years, it would run fine which it did with the factory mags. Hell! With my tuning it even ran the winchesters with no aftermarket parts! Now the mission is to get it to run well with the csspec mags. Thats it, nothing more.

I'd like to know what facts I have wrong?

As far as one gun running both light and heavy loads......When Im done it will run pretty much anything 2 3/4" from slugs to buckshot down to 3 dram target loads with one set up and I'll be able to change a couple components and it will run 2 3/4" slugs and buck up to 3' mags without beating itself to death. Granted its not one gun really but changing out a few things will allow me to change it up if I want. I rarely if ever run anything hotter than 1oz 1600 fps slugs any how and even that is very rare. My standard reload I use is a federal low brass plastic hull (i use to run paper not all that long ago) 1 1/8th oz 7 1/2 3 dram loads. I do have a 2 3/4 dram load that ran i'd say 98% of the time with factory mags on a fixed stock gun I had. When Im done with this one I might load up a batch and see if she'll eat em.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 01:43 AM   #21
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Sorry forgot something. I was under the impression the universal winchesters were lighter and had thinner hulls than the winchester super targets? Maybe Im wrong. Maybe someone can compare them side by side. Really doesn't matter though. The Federals are a much better shell for the same money. The super targets and the federals are both 3 dram loads but the federals feel hotter. Has always seemed that way with federals across the board. Often wondered if it wasn't just a difference in wad but probably more likely different characteristics of the powders.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 02:07 AM   #22
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
Then after reading all this, I'm going to threat myself to a beer.
Ichiban Prime Brew or some Mean Apple Cider.



I went through this awhile ago, w/2 Vepr 12's, one that was smooth out of the box, and one that was the opposite, Jekyll and Hyde.



Still hand cycled the smooth V12 at least 1000 times, my other V12 way more than a 1000 (maybe even twice that/I lost count), sand/polished both guns w/various grits and emory and then sanded again.



Vepr 2, my V12 which wasn't smooth out of the box, had a COMPLETELY jacked up hammer w/a chunk of metal missing, and I guess whoever was assembling these guns at the factory that night loved inflicting pain, and they put it in anyway to make me work.................This is Vepr 2 in my big vise, and this is how the hammer looked out of the box...........








About midway through the process, and after who knows how many polishings it looked like this....








After countless hours, and zonked one night, I stopped/finished/quit/called time.................whatever it was, and ended it, resulting in this.........









More sweat equity than I ever anticipated particularly to get the gun in the ballpark of my first gun which came right, right out of the box.


So I've seen this go both ways, and up close.


I can now run my Federal Flite Control #1 buck @1100fps low recoil or whatever you call it, thru either gun absolutely no sweat/hiccups/farts/burps................anything.


But I would say to you, my personal understanding of this is from getting 2 guns which were absolutely different (and I'm not talking about the rear end) re the internals. Same gun, but one of my guns was rough around the edges but was smooth, and the other gun a mess. I'm sure if you get my smooth gun shipped to somebody, they'll have one view of the gun, and if they got my second v12 shipped to them, they'd have another view.

AND YES.................the fact that there can be that great a difference betweet the same guns coming from the same factory isn't on whoever buys them (this has been widely discussed already).




So I've been where you've been, and I'll wish you good luck, and instead of everybody/anybody getting worked up, maybe we'll all bust out w/some favorite brew.
You are correct sir! Its amazing that the same factory can produce absolutely gorgeous, smooth as glass firearms and then suddenly turn out a hunk of crap. I have two identical vepr fms in 7.62. While both are nice, one is light years better than the other. Im not talking about finish here. Ive gone over the two of them a hundred times and cant put my finger on it but the one just feels so much better in its function. Everybody gets all worked up about nothing. Funny, everyone knows these folding stocks are crap but god forbid you point it out. You would swear they caught you screwin their sister. LOL! My earlier vepr shotguns were fixed stock models and I have a couple vepr fm's with folders which are fine, that is why I was shocked at the poor design and workmanship on this folding stock. I shouldnt say stock, I should say the way it mounts to the plate. Anyways, great job on yours! Those fcg's they are using are beauties aren't they? LOL! You would swear they got a deal on the rejects.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 10:00 AM   #23
AllTen
Member
 
AKaholic #: 181458
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 283
Default

Maybe the engineers/machinists can correct me if I'm saying this the wrong way, but a neighbor of mine who's an engineer said something to the effect of when you have critical parts that have to work w/other parts, the function of polishing is to remove small imperfections that through movement and interactions w/other parts start to turn into small cracks which continually get worse until the part fails.



I was thinking of this when I saw a chunk missing out of the hammer of this gun when I first opened up the box. I called the folks who sent me the gun after I sent 'em pics of the hammer and told them for a $1,000 I want another gun...............and I'm going to say it......................I was pissed.




They actually agreed to send me another gun, but being in California, and w/the restriction on any Vepr's coming into the state, I could send them the gun, but the replacement wouldn't be allowed to be shipped back to me.



So it was get another fcg, or work on the gun the way it was. I have to admit that this then presented a challenge where I was determined to make the thing work.



I actually don't blame the gun or Molot, but I do blame the guy who put this hammer in the gun.



I was dealt a great hand w/my smooth Vepr, and a bad hand w/my 2nd Vepr, but I do feel good about turning that gun around and bringing it up to the mojo of my 1st Vepr.

Last edited by AllTen; 03-16-2019 at 10:28 AM.
AllTen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 11:06 AM   #24
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Yea the fcg cant really be blamed on them. If it works fine, leave it. If your not happy, put an ALG in it. You will have to make a few changes to it or I think I saw someone who is selling the alg with the changes already done.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 12:40 PM   #25
AllTen
Member
 
AKaholic #: 181458
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 283
Default

I already have 2 1st class fcg which I bought in case I wasn't satisfied w/the performance of either gun, which would also be replacements in case of breakage.


Also replacement springs...................but that was early on, and the cycling/polishing worked wonders, and it doesn't make any sense for me to "rock the boat" by making any changes so I left/leaving well enough alone.
AllTen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 12:47 PM   #26
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Well, good news! My fix for the stock worked. There are a few different kinds of what I call Green Wicking loctite. The #680 in particular is made for cylindrical press fit joints but has the capability to fill larger gaps unlike the normal stuff. Its a bit thicker and doesnt flow as well but there was so much movement in it that working the stock back and forth drew it into the joint. It was rock solid this morning. We will see how it holds up to recoil. I have used the regular green wicking loctite on tapered shafts in race motors (50cc dirtbikes) and the regular stuff is real thin. The regular might work too depending on how loose things are. The number for the regular is 290
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Last edited by mojoracing; 03-16-2019 at 12:54 PM.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 12:48 PM   #27
coolsolid
Member
 
coolsolid's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 161316
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 321
Default

Awesome, glad the Vepr 12 is working for you now.
__________________
"Donít beg for things, do it yourself or else you wonít get anything." - Adroc Thurston

Safety First My Friends ! - Mayor Fuglycool
coolsolid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 09:34 PM   #28
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Added a korotish gas puck,JTE performance guide rod and a css performance spring, should run the Federal 3 drams like a raped ape tomorrow. Debating what optic to put on it. I have an extra eotech 512, an extra Holosun 510c and an extra PA micro red dot. Im thinking the Holosun will work best. I would really like to run the eotech but might not have enough real estate on the dust cover pic rail. Ive got a tdi arms m-lok handguard too but I dont plan on mounting anything else up front so other than it being a bit narrower and lighter I dont see that much of a benefit and I actually like the stock handguard. Im going to shoot it both ways and see what feels better.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2019, 09:56 PM   #29
Desolo
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 178071
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Burgaw NC
Posts: 551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Well, good news! My fix for the stock worked. There are a few different kinds of what I call Green Wicking loctite. The #680 in particular is made for cylindrical press fit joints but has the capability to fill larger gaps unlike the normal stuff. Its a bit thicker and doesnt flow as well but there was so much movement in it that working the stock back and forth drew it into the joint. It was rock solid this morning. We will see how it holds up to recoil. I have used the regular green wicking loctite on tapered shafts in race motors (50cc dirtbikes) and the regular stuff is real thin. The regular might work too depending on how loose things are. The number for the regular is 290
It should hold up juuuuust fine.... I almost replaced my stock until I did what you just did. Same product and all
Desolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2019, 11:41 AM   #30
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolo View Post
It should hold up juuuuust fine.... I almost replaced my stock until I did what you just did. Same product and all
Ha! I was going to do the same with a css hinge and m4 stock but really prefer the factory unit. Im thinking its going to hold up too. Funny we had the same idea with the loctite. That 680 is amazing stuff. Actually all there products are great, you just have to choose the right one for the job and some are only available to the industrial market. I happened to have this stuff laying around at my plant. With the amount of wobble this thing had, I never expected it to work as well as it did. Worked out well.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2019, 11:45 AM   #31
lemonysword
Member
 
lemonysword's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 160270
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Added a korotish gas puck,JTE performance guide rod and a css performance spring, should run the Federal 3 drams like a raped ape tomorrow. Debating what optic to put on it. I have an extra eotech 512, an extra Holosun 510c and an extra PA micro red dot. Im thinking the Holosun will work best. I would really like to run the eotech but might not have enough real estate on the dust cover pic rail. Ive got a tdi arms m-lok handguard too but I dont plan on mounting anything else up front so other than it being a bit narrower and lighter I dont see that much of a benefit and I actually like the stock handguard. Im going to shoot it both ways and see what feels better.

I've had 3 vepr 12s and all of them would run Federal target loads without any modifications. I think the stuff is 2.75 drams; I always buy the pink ones. My first V12 wouldn't cycle more than 2 or 3 target loads before jamming, so I shot about a hundred rounds of buckshot through it to break it in, and after that it was fine. My 2nd one needed less break in, and my 3rd one was fine out of the box. It's likely you didn't have to grab all that extra stuff, I would have given it a chance to break in before spending more money on it.


I use a Burris Fastfire on mine and I really like it. It's lightweight, low profile, and the open screen makes it really easy to find, track, and target moving clays. It's also mounted at the right height. I had a PA micro dot on it at first, but I didn't like the limited field of view it gave me. However, if you're not using this gun for shooting clays, the micro dot would probably be your best bet. The Eotech and Holosun are set up to cowitness with AR sights, so I imagine theyd be uncomfortably tall on the Vepr. Plus, thats more weight on an already heavy gun. I too am a fan of the stock handguards, but they're a little slick feeling. I've debated on doing something I've seen on the Files and mount an Mlok or keymod vertical grip directly to it by drilling a couple holes in the bottom of the handguard.
lemonysword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2019, 01:19 PM   #32
saltydecimator
Member
 
AKaholic #: 190278
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Fomo, CO
Posts: 359
Default

oh good i was hoping some pics were gonna be posted
saltydecimator is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 12:04 AM   #33
mojoracing
Veteran Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 1,314
Default

To answer lemons statement, I had over 300 rounds through it the first trip to the range. With just the bit of polishing and reprofiling I did it ran the Federal bulk perfectly through the factory 5 rounder. It even ran the Winchester crap perfect through the factory 5 round mag. Problem was it wouldn't run the csspec 10 rounders. I didn't have a factory 10 round so I don't know if it would run that or not. It was on the edge of running the csspec's. I think the additional friction of the park finish on them might have been enough along with higher spring tension on the 10 round to only run about 60 to 70 percent. Anyways, the gun had enough rounds to break it in and being as I want it to run target loads out of any mag ( molot, csspec, sgm 12 rnd and drum), the extra parts just made sense. Also got a sgm 12 round with the parts.

Anywho, tested it today with the new parts and some updated polishing. It ran everything perfectly. The csspecs 10 rounders and the sgm 12 rounder ran perfect as fast as I could pull the trigger. Ran 225 rounds with only 2 FTE. Both fte were while using one particular csspec mag. I had noticed while fitting my 3 csspecs that one has a right feedlip that is angled outward and sits a little lower than the left side feed lip. Im thinking that is the reason for the couple fte I had. Spoke to mike at css and he is having me send pics of it. Said it might be just a minor thing they missed. I will have a youtube video out on my channel showing all the modifications, testing and final result sometime tomorrow. After all the bad things I read about the sgm tactical mags, I was impressed with them. The only thing I see as an issue is that they dont have metal lips or latch so long term durability may be an issue. By far the quality award has to go to csspec. The mags are beautiful and tough.

As far as optics go, Im still torn. You're right about the micro dot, it does limit your view on a shotgun. The eotech is heavier and definitely sits higher but these guns weigh a ton already so whats another couple ounces!LOL! The holosun may be perfect. I think with the adjustable cheek rest it might sit just fine. You're right about it though. I got it on an ar I traded for and it does cowitness but I'm betting it sits lower than the eotech. (not hard to do). Should have everything sorted out this week and I have 3 weeks till our club has its first 3 gun shoot of the year.
__________________
The thing about Socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
mojoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 08:25 AM   #34
flakman
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 190767
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Davie, FL
Posts: 800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTER View Post
I am breaking mine in and it doesn't like anything I have put thru it so far. Started with the cheaps, then to 1290fps, now onto high brass which I believe will cycle it according to what I read. It was new when I got it and is very tight, no wobble as you descrined. My advice spend the extra and get the proper loads that it will run since it's new or you are going to get frustrated. Looking forward to you reporting back with your experience as you are at the same point as me.
You can also put stronger recoil spring and other upgrades to make it shoot better
flakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles